Iraq civil war or not?
Bluntly things will never get better while USA and UK are there. An enraged Muslim world, thousands of children dead and mutilated - what an outcome to be produced on behalf of a people with a manifest destiny? A war on terror indeed - more a war of terror.
I suspect the motive for the aggression against Iraq was to get nearer to Iran (and possibly Russia) to show what would happen if they did not change.
If we remember Primeminister Mossadeq of Iran and how he was deposed by USA and UK we might think the world would be better now if he had been left to progress his own country.
See my contribution at the end of "Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?" Brecht was so right...
My point was more a hope that the administration would realize
the truth of the mater. Our president seems unwilling to comprehend reality. If indeed there is a civil war and we can not stop it what is the good that we can do? Is it best to leave and try to help pick up the pieces of the aftermath or is it better to stay and try to perform damage control? I don't pretend to know.
If you think you realize more about the situation in Iraq than the administration, then you are sadly mistaken. There is quite a bit of dissention in the higher ranks of the military, some of whom have direct communication with the secretary of defense and the president himself. Why do you think Rumsfeld was suggesting a change in the direction action in Iraq?
As I said here yesterday, we know the war is not winnable, we must decide on a plan of action. Setting up focus groups to decide what to call the problem is not going to solve the problem. Most of the people who want to label the war a "civil war" have no idea what the term actually means. They only want to use it to point fingers and avoid having to generate any workable solution.
Meanwhile, the name game allows the opposition to also avoid the problem by engaging in more rhetoric.
I don't remember asking for a focus group. What I say is we need answers as to what to do. Only recently have we heard people in the administration saying change is needed, or that we are not winning the war. Up until a bit before the recent elections the president was still pushing his stay the course message. Does the administration have more information and know more of what is going on over in Iraq than I do, I would hope so. Does it seem to sink in to the president, if it does I have not seen him express it. What I would like to see is real leadership, the kind that does not spin the truth but grounds itself in rock hard reality. I hope with the soon to be new Sec. of Defense this will come true.
I agree that we need to make a decision on what to do....that is what I have been advocating all along. Calling the problem a different name does nothing to alleviate it. However, Army Gen. John Abizaid said in September that if the violence went on unchecked, a civil war was possible. Nobody....NOBODY...neither the democrats nor the republicans... reported it or paid attention to it. So what good would it do coming from uninformed civilians?
Only recently has the dissention in the upper ranks of the military and the defense department been LEAKED to the public. It has been out there for much longer than you have known about it......don't assume that because you didn't hear about it, it didn't exist nor was it being voiced to the appropriate people. You need to read THIS ARTICLE published on November 4, 2006.
All we are getting out of washington is spin and fashionable rhetoric from both parties. There are no solutions being offered from either side.
Meanwhile, those in harms way continue to try to survive under the mounds of bullshit they get on a daily basis.
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man.” Hemingway
The panel reccomendation is pandering and useless. They are playing CYA to the voters to stay in office. Essentially, thay are saying try diplomacy then get out.
[b]"Our most important recommendations call for new and enhanced diplomatic and political efforts in Iraq and the region, and a change in the primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq that will enable the United States to begin to move its combat forces out of Iraq responsibly. We believe that these two recommendations are equally important and reinforce one another. If they are effectively implemented, and if the Iraqi government moves forward with national reconciliation, Iraqis will have an opportunity for a better future, terrorism will be dealt a blow, stability will be enhanced in an important part of the world, and America's credibility, interests and values will be protected."[/b]
Then we have this from democratic Rep. Silvestre Reyes [the new chairman of the House Intelligence Committee]:
[b]“We have to consider the need for additional troops to be in Iraq, to take out the militias and stabilize Iraq … We certainly can’t leave Iraq and run the risk that it becomes [like] Afghanistan”[/b]
tick-tock-tick-tock Mr President and Ms Speaker......
I just joined. I found StephTheGeek by clicking random articles on wikipedia, stumbling across a picture of her, and then following it here. I signed up and started browsing these here forums.
This is a very interesting debate. Even moreso for me, since I'm actually, no-shit, in Iraq right now.
You, and the western world at large, can debate all it wants as to whether or not Iraq is in a state of civil war. The Sunni and the Shi'a here don't care; they already know they're in a civil war.
If I'm here so we don't have to fight them over there (back home), but they're fighting each other, who am I fighting for? (Saw that in a news story the other day and it made me chuckle. The answer: I'm fighting for me and my buddies to make it back home alive. I'm just a SSgt; those kind of political debates are very much above my paygrade.)
And no, I'm not a pacifist or someone who's gonna go AWOL or anything like that. And no, I'm not a huge Bush supporter or Iraqi war supporter. And no, I'm not a mindless robot.
And before the question gets asked: I'm here because this is what I do and this is where they said I was going. Simple as that.
Joined: 2006-05-20