I FUCKING HATE WINDOWS!

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Joined: 2006-05-20

Let me say it again for good measure:

I FUCKING HATE WINDOWS!

In the course of my work, I have to use multiple versions of my company's software. To do this without going through the half-hour uninstall/reinstall cycle, I keep multiple versions installed on my hard drive. When I finish with one version, I rename its directory to <product>.<version1>, and rename directory <product>.<version2> back to <product> to use the other version.

All nice in theory. Except that Windows, in its glorious infallibility, has decreed that if a file or directory is in use you're not allowed to rename it, delete it, or in fact touch it in any way, shape or form. Which would be barely acceptable if it weren't for the fact that Windows Explorer has a habit of leaving its dirty little finger in directories it shouldn't.

Of course Microsoft doesn't offer any tools to allow you to determine the culprit process in these cases. Just an "Access is denied" error message. I had to use third-party tools from sysinternals.com to figure out that Explorer was the culprit. The only solution? Killing Explorer (or logging out and back in to Windows.)

Have I mentioned that I fucking hate Windows?

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



Visitor
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Here's a thought for your excellent rant: WHy not buy an Intel based Mac, slap Windows XP on it, then see if you can also slap Linux onto it. This likely isn't possible (the Linux part anyway) but one can dream.

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Posts: 164
Joined: 2006-05-20

So, you suggest getting around the Windows XP file locking problem by replacing the hardware with something that's less compatible with Windows, and still running Windows on it?

By the way, I like Windows XP. It has its faults, yes, but I don't think there's an overall better desktop OS. And, I think it's by far the best Windows version.

Now for a server, Linux all the way. Fedora, specifically.

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koreyj wrote:
Here's a thought for your excellent rant: WHy not buy an Intel based Mac, slap Windows XP on it, then see if you can also slap Linux onto it. This likely isn't possible (the Linux part anyway) but one can dream.

I already run Linux almost exclusively except when I'm working with software that only runs on Windows - such as the product which I was referring to in my original rant.

mcavic wrote:
By the way, I like Windows XP. It has its faults, yes, but I don't think there's an overall better desktop OS. And, I think it's by far the best Windows version.

On the contrary, I believe Linux makes a better desktop OS than Windows, with features that Windows doesn't have, or didn't have until recently. It took Microsoft until Windows XP to provide multiple desktops, and you still can only have four without buying third-party software. And Linux/Unix was providing remote GUIs through X before Terminal Server was even a glint in Microsoft's eye.

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



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tww1fa wrote:

mcavic wrote:
By the way, I like Windows XP. It has its faults, yes, but I don't think there's an overall better desktop OS. And, I think it's by far the best Windows version.

On the contrary, I believe Linux makes a better desktop OS than Windows, with features that Windows doesn't have, or didn't have until recently. It took Microsoft until Windows XP to provide multiple desktops, and you still can only have four without buying third-party software. And Linux/Unix was providing remote GUIs through X before Terminal Server was even a glint in Microsoft's eye.

This isn't really a valid argument, though, is it? I'm not getting involved in the technical side of it, cause I don't use, nor have I ever used, linux. However, it seems a bit faulty to say that one thing is better than the other because a couple years ago it had more features.

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- HB



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You might try to do whatever you wanted to the directory in a command window. It often lets you delete and rename stuff which Windows itself won't let you.

And (something I often forget when programming) make sure you're not still running a program from that directory.

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I'm gonna eat you little fishie



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That'd require a reboot, which'd probably end up being a minor pain for FA.

And FA noted pretty specifically that the problem was Explorer holding the file open, and not some other program.

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Moleculor's picture
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Haddock-Boy wrote:
This isn't really a valid argument, though, is it? I'm not getting involved in the technical side of it, cause I don't use, nor have I ever used, linux. However, it seems a bit faulty to say that one thing is better than the other because a couple years ago it had more features.

I still find both the multiple desktop implementation and the remote GUI ability in Linux to be a lot more useful than what Windows offers. I like having a 3x3 matrix of desktops at my disposal, with the ability to have programs start up on specific desktops automagically when I log in. And Windows remote GUI is all or nothing - you either get a complete desktop on the remote machine or run locally. On X you can run specific programs on a remote machine displaying locally.

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



Posts: 1381
Joined: 2006-05-20

Oooooooooh! Thanks!

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



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tww1fa wrote:
I still find both the multiple desktop implementation and the remote GUI ability in Linux to be a lot more useful than what Windows offers. I like having a 3x3 matrix of desktops at my disposal, with the ability to have programs start up on specific desktops automagically when I log in. And Windows remote GUI is all or nothing - you either get a complete desktop on the remote machine or run locally. On X you can run specific programs on a remote machine displaying locally.

I like the capability to run remote apps and display them locally, I'll give you that, but I have simply never seen the usefulness of multiple desktops. I know I'm committing some sort of linux heresy here, but I always found it irritating, as I'd have to search for whatever desktop I'd put application ABC on. Then again, it could have to do with continued usage, I guess.

However, as much as I *do* like linux, I have to disagree that it's a better desktop OS. Not because it's not as feature rich as Windows or OSX, but because configuring it is not simply for the uninitiated. For the most part, when you set up Windows XP or OSX, it Just Works(tm). X works, but requires tweaking. Configuring X is an unholy nightmare if you don't know the specs of your hardware, for example.

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If we're all chum, I'm definitely one of the chunky bits.



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Spazholio wrote:
I like the capability to run remote apps and display them locally, I'll give you that, but I have simply never seen the usefulness of multiple desktops. I know I'm committing some sort of linux heresy here, but I always found it irritating, as I'd have to search for whatever desktop I'd put application ABC on. Then again, it could have to do with continued usage, I guess.

I always have specific programs running on specific desktops. For example, desktop 1 (top left) is a couple of terminals, desktop 2 (top middle) is Thunderbird maximized, desktop 4 (middle left) is Firefox maximized, desktop 7 (bottom left) is xchat and kopete.

The advantage to me is being able to run related programs in specific desktops.

Quote:
However, as much as I *do* like linux, I have to disagree that it's a better desktop OS. Not because it's not as feature rich as Windows or OSX, but because configuring it is not simply for the uninitiated. For the most part, when you set up Windows XP or OSX, it Just Works(tm). X works, but requires tweaking. Configuring X is an unholy nightmare if you don't know the specs of your hardware, for example.

I'll partially agree on this (things are slowly getting better, although they're held back by the driver problem.) However, once it's configured it will just keep going and going like the Energizer Bunny, unlike Windows which tends to suffer from bit-rot and needs rebooting (or even reinstalling) on a regular basis.

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



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tww1fa wrote:

I always have specific programs running on specific desktops. For example, desktop 1 (top left) is a couple of terminals, desktop 2 (top middle) is Thunderbird maximized, desktop 4 (middle left) is Firefox maximized, desktop 7 (bottom left) is xchat and kopete.

The advantage to me is being able to run related programs in specific desktops.

Exactly. It works best if you think of each desktop as a "task portal". If you need app , y, and z to do a specific task, they go on one desktop together. App f, g, and h would go on another

Quote:

I'll partially agree on this (things are slowly getting better, although they're held back by the driver problem.) However, once it's configured it will just keep going and going like the Energizer Bunny, unlike Windows which tends to suffer from bit-rot and needs rebooting (or even reinstalling) on a regular basis.

I haven't tried it yet, but i've heard that the setup for Ubuntu is almost ridiculously simple. I've heard the install process requires a total of 2 enter key presses.

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-0000002



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If I recall correctly, the last time I installed Fedora Core 4 it autodetected all of the display settings during install and on the first boot afterwards it started the X desktop up perfectly. So fighting with X Windows is likely more to be an issue with how much your distro wants to hold your hand than an inherent problem with Linux/X Windows.

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Posts: 1381
Joined: 2006-05-20

tww1fa wrote:

Oooooooooh! Thanks!

Sigh. Unfortunately, the unlock extension makes Explorer crash any time you try to access a file on a remote filesystem mounted from a Samba server.

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



Moleculor's picture
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tww1fa wrote:
tww1fa wrote:

Oooooooooh! Thanks!

Sigh. Unfortunately, the unlock extension makes Explorer crash any time you try to access a file on a remote filesystem mounted from a Samba server.

Bug report it. It is a beta, after all.

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Posts: 1381
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The new 1.8.2 version does not have the problem. Thanks again!

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There's a thin line between genius and insanity - where's my eraser?



craig's picture
Posts: 125
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http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html

Search for the DLL name as a handle. Find the process and close it. You can even do it if its explorer.exe holding it by just closing the thread that has the handle lock for the DLL. The system then nicely does the cleanup and unlocks the file for you.

You may also wish to look into a virtual machine product. I use and recommend VMware, however if you are a Microsoft Partner or developer you have access to their Virtual PC product for free.

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